Bet on People
We talk to leaders and business owners about their journey learning the value of human-centered leadership and how betting on people isn't just good feels, it's smart business. We explore the career arc behind their evolution as a leader: where human-centered values showed up early and where they had to learn the hard way.
Bet on People
Bet on People with Clara De Marco
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In this episode of the Bet on People Podcast, Keegan Evans, executive coach and AI Consultant at Euda and Limited Partner at Beyond Earth Ventures, sits down with Clara De Marco, Head of People & Talent at peoplepath.io. They explore the principles of human-centered leadership and the practical strategies leaders can use to prioritize people while achieving business outcomes. Clara shares her experience scaling organizations, leading HR transformations, and aligning talent strategy with organizational performance across the US and Latin America.
The conversation emphasizes that investing in people is not only the right thing to do, it’s essential for sustainable business success. From engagement surveys to warehouse expansions, Clara illustrates how leaders can balance business needs with the growth, well-being, and development of individuals.
Expect to Learn
- How prioritizing people in leadership decisions drives sustainable business performance.
- Lessons from engagement initiatives that transformed employee experience and business outcomes.
- The importance of ownership and accountability by leaders in shaping culture.
- Insights on navigating high-pressure situations, tough feedback, and organizational change.
- Stories of perseverance, problem-solving, and creating opportunities that impact both individuals and organizations.
Episode Breakdown with Timestamps
- [00:00:00] – Teaser
- [00:01:06] – Introduction & Welcome: Keegan introduces the podcast and guest Clara DeMarco.
- [00:02:33] – Philosophy of Building People to Build Companies: Clara shares her approach and the core of her leadership philosophy.
- [00:06:39] – Balancing People and Performance: Discussion of high-pressure environments, performance gaps, and development management.
- [00:16:56] – Prioritizing People in Engagement: Clara’s experience leading engagement initiatives at Thermo Fisher Scientific.
- [00:21:20] – Leadership Ownership and Culture: How leaders must take responsibility for culture, engagement, and outcomes.
- [00:29:23] – Case Study: Warehouse Expansion: Reframing financial and operational plans to focus on people and organizational impact.
- [00:34:02] – Impact of Small Actions: Stories of individual employee impact, empowerment, and building culture.
- [00:36:08] – Lightning Round: Personal Insights: Clara shares first job, lessons learned, leadership myths, and bad advice.
- [00:39:26] – Books, Practices, and Personal Development: Recommendations for reading, yoga practice, and continued learning.
- [00:40:11] – Closing & Resources: How to connect with Clara and People Path, and where to follow the podcast.
🔗Connect with Guest Clara De Marco:
👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clarademarco/
👉 Email: clara@peoplepath.io
🔗Connect with peoplepath.io:
👉 Website: https://www.peoplepath.io/
👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/peoplepath/
🔗Connect with Host Keegan Evans:
👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keeganevans/
🔗 More from Euda:
👉 Website: https://www.euda.io/
👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/euda-io/
🔗 Follow the Podcast on:
👉 Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bet-on-people/id1882863281
👉 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5HgXTMbgkDsmuqzUiDGcXc
👉 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Euda-io
Tell us about a time that you really explicitly from the very beginning prioritize people. I know you mentioned an engagement survey at Thermo Fisher.
SPEAKER_01So I went to the CEO with the presentation to talk about this is something that you need to own. This is your team's responsibility.
SPEAKER_00Clara DeMarco is head of people and talent at PeoplePath, where she helps companies build and scale high-performing recruiting teams fast, drawing on her 20 years of global HR leadership across high-growth tech and life sciences.
SPEAKER_01I always prioritize people, but sometimes it's like an everyday decision. And sometimes it's just not perfect.
SPEAKER_02Is there a more specific example that you can talk about that ended up where it was not prioritizing people and you learned the reality of everyone loses?
SPEAKER_01In those situations, definitely the employee loses. We lose, the client loses too. Ramping the person up again, finding the right person, it costs the business.
SPEAKER_02I'm Keegan Evans, executive coach and founder of Uta. And my guest today is Claire DeMarco, head of people at PeoplePath, a global HR and talent executive with over 20 years of experience building organizations across the U.S. and Latin America.
SPEAKER_01Hi, Kian. Nice to be here with you.
SPEAKER_02Nice to have you here. Thank you so much. You've partnered with CEOs and executive teams in both high growth tech and regulated life science environments, aligning people, strategy, and organizational design with business performance. And most recently, you scale people path from 20 to over 300 employees globally, and also have led large-scale HR transformations at ThermoFisher Scientific across Latin America. You have the philosophy of you don't build companies, you build people, and people build companies. I'd love to, before we dive into any of our normal format and stories, I'd love to just with that amazing experience and with that philosophy, just how did you come to that and how do you approach that? And and what does that mean clicking down into it?
SPEAKER_01I don't want to say the basic, right? But it is about the basics. You know people, right? And and people are these complex creatures who will make things happen or not for you. If you want to build something great and sustainable over time, you need the people to do so.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_01So as long as you focus on the right people, building those people, meaning developing those people, you'll have sustainable growth. People will make you or break you. And we've all seen that. I think that's foundational. Over those 20 years of experience, I got to partner with a lot of uh founders. So I've seen companies grow from inceptions, ideas. One founder or two founders, no company, no website, just an idea. I've engaged with those founders building great things. It could be maybe the cure for cancer through studying the metabolic system of a person and how you can really find treatments to cancer through diet.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01How do you build that? It's just you, right? Stanford graduated, you got it. This is what you want to do. And it's an amazing idea. How do you scale? How do you make that happen with the right people? Those critical first hires and like just the experience of having those conversations. If I had learned that previously, you know, 20 years ago when I started doing recruiting, I just got to confirm the importance of bringing on the right people and hiring the right people. I always say recruiting is the core multiplier for any organization.
SPEAKER_02Open that by commenting. Well, I don't want to just focus on the basics, but I, listener to the podcast and anyone who's followed things that I've written before know that one of my core philosophies earned from time in the Marine Corps and a wonderful leader that I knew early on in that career is brilliance in the basics. And it's not just getting the basic stuff right, but choosing to excel at the basics. And that earns the right for the more advanced stuff, the curing cancer or the or the things like that. And I think it it's spot on with what you're talking about in terms of recruiting and getting the right people and team together and then developing them. What do you see? Talk to our audience a little bit more about PeoplePath and how that looks and what you all how that intersects with what you do there.
SPEAKER_01So, what we do at PeoplePath is partner with leaders from really small organizations, like small startups, founder-led organizations to high growth tech companies, Stripe, Block, Robin Hood. I couldn't, because I'm very proud.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And very proudly so to work with you. And little ones, um, at the beginning of the conversation, the example of a founder wanting to build a company around the cure for certain strains of cancer through the metabolic system. It's a true story. We helped this company, you know, think about the talent strategy and what this founder needed, who he needed to bring on board to make this company a reality. No website. It's like this is something that's like in the making. And so we consult with leaders around how to build the right recruiting infrastructure, the talent infrastructure, all the processes, the tools, and the story, the brand, and how to attract those people, the right people, to make things possible. Fast forward five years from that moment. This founder just sold the company and it the company was acquired. So it was a big scale up for us. And that's what we took.
SPEAKER_02So you've brought this philosophy to life. Let's dive into how the journey that helped you develop philosophy and where you learn lessons where it really applied well on bet on people. We like to talk in terms of the three stories, the three decisions. I'd love to hear a little bit more about a time that you or you were part of a decision that maybe went a little more, hey, this is the pure business decision and less about the people-focused decision. I know you'd mentioned some high-pressure client work and cases there. Can you tell us about Story?
SPEAKER_01I actually wish I could say I always prioritize people, but sometimes really I think prioritizing people, it's like an everyday decision. And sometimes it's just not perfect that we get to do that. And we work with a lot of high-growth tech startups. Scaling these types of organizations forces you to balance the time that you have in your hands to put people first and outcomes. In those types of environments, the pressure is super high. And the expectation is results. Results and fast. So when you identify a performance issue and there's something that's not working, a window of time that you have to help that person course correct through different tools, right? Of course, feedback, real-time feedback, different trainings, mostly coaching and support, like supporting the person to close those gaps. It's a very narrow window. And many times, if results are not there, we need to make changes fast and development in a way. I think this is a common reality, right?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Yeah. I coach a similar kind of demographic of clients and the broad leadership decisions. And those I really like how you you were so clear about it's not about, hey, things need to change, things need to adjust. It's that narrow window of opportunity is so is important. That that made me start thinking about some things.
SPEAKER_01It's like the real leadership tension. This is like common. This isn't an everyday thing. You're leading this boat. You gotta get to where you're being asked to get to. You have to achieve those goals. And development takes time. This is why it's so underrated. Like when you look at performance, everyone talks about performance management. It's not performance, it's performance and development management. We forget that the it's so underrated. I mean, development is just it's underrated because it's misunderstood. There's always like a misalignment. Because development isn't just trainings or like reskilling, building new skills. Of course, it's about the opportunities you have every day to provide feedback and the opportunities employees have to ask for feedback. Because that's to me, if I have to say I am as a leader, as an HR leader, always making it about the empowerment employees have to own their development as well, right? And not always expect the leader, you know, will come and like give them the right feedback or say the right words or the right coaching or give them the right tools. You have to own it and you have to ask for it. It is very tough when someone is not performing and there's not much time and you have to, of course, correct things. Many times it ends with making a change in that team and always try to reassign people to other clients. And um, but sometimes it's it's not possible. I will tell you that in those situations, everyone loses. Definitely the employee loses. We lose, the client loses too because you're wasting someone the time ramping the person up again, finding the right person. It cost the business a lot of money. It's you we're constantly trying to find new ways to be more proactive and like be on top of our teams more, right? A little more oversight, a little more like what's going on, and like and establish a communication or flow, right? Of communication that allows for where the opportunities are to just, you know, come up more proactively. Uh, but it's not always the case.
SPEAKER_02Is there um, and please don't divulge uh client details in this way, but is there a is there a I really appreciate how at the beginning of that you said we try to prioritize people where we can, but we're not perfect. Is there a particular or more specific example that you can talk about some of the thought process and decision making that went into it that ended up where it was not prioritizing people? And you learned the the reality of everyone loses, as you so well put it?
SPEAKER_01Happily not not too too often, right? Because we also put in place some mechanisms to, like I said, let's be more proactive, let's be on top of our teams. We're constantly like, hey, ask for feedback, you know, do the happiness checking. We call it a happiness checking, what's working, what's not. And like we continuously encourage this on our teams. But sometimes, you know, people think because results are there or you know, hires are coming and on-sites, and because in recruiting, you know, you have those core like KPIs that you, you know, that that signal success that everything is good, right? And only to find out later, right, that there were some gaps. And in a very recent example, things seemed to be going well. There's this client, um, they're expanding exponentially. And so there's a lot of pressure in the team. They are trying to, we're hiring more people to support, right? But in the meantime, everyone is crunched, everyone is feeling that pressure, including the client. I mean, it's not all the pressure on the team. It's like the leaders are suffering. You can see everyone is suffering. No one is really like babysitting anybody, right? You want people to plug and play and and and bring results, right? And this person just uh had to step away for a few days when someone comes to kind of like cover up for, you know, provide coverage for the time, they start funding out things, right? Like, so apparently this person was not really on a like, you know, you start like unpacking different things and and then you reach out to to stakeholders just to take on the work and they say, you know, something here and there. And so this is the situation, right? And so the client flux it, the person is not, you know, present and is not also like in the right position to be called and tell the feedback and course correct it. So, but by the time the person comes back, there's this whole thing that had happened that you need to provide feedback on and you need to work with the person to course correct promptly. And again, the window to really like show improvement is very, very short. And it ended up not working out. You know, cases like that happen here and there.
SPEAKER_02How did you all prepare for uh it's so it sounds like the employee was out on leave or something and things have been discovered? And when they came back, how did you all prepare for that return? Were there clear decisions of okay, if this is a response, then we go down this path? If this is a response, we go down another path. What was the thought process preparing for that return in that window?
SPEAKER_01Yes. So our policy is not even a practice, at best practice. You have to be super honest and transparent with people. We're all grown-ups. So being transparent means outlining the feedback, right? And being and having separate conversations because you can't mix the events with the the reality of performance and what's not working. So separate conversations. Of course, we allow people to resolve their things, and this wasn't a sick leave, it was things that this person had. Like I said, we're people, we deal with issues that we need to attend. So that was not the case. But as soon as the person came back, we were super transparent, right? This is what's happening, right? And this is the feedback, and this is what's lagging, and it's been lagging. Let's dig into it. What's happening? Is it the report? Is it, you know, and try to like really review and give the person the opportunity to answer, right? To you know, kind of like build a story around what the client identified and how it correlates to the events, how can it be corrected? Sometimes those situations are overwhelming because you're just coming back and then you're being given all this feedback. But again, we really can't not like act promptly, right? And so people usually feel overwhelmed. And when it's this kind of feedback, motivation lowers, and there's this whole thing that happens, but we are super proactive with like looking at the story, trying to send uh the client a reply and an action plan. So there's always like a review of the feedback, an opportunity to realign on what's happening and the action plan. And we usually will work and we'll check in with a person every day. This is the annoying part, right? We'll check in every day. Can you achieve this? Are you comfortable with these goals? And if not, we developed a way to provide support. Uh, we have like an internal sourcing team that usually is constantly working across our accounts, knows the roles, like they're constantly sourcing and building pipelines. And we usually can supply and and you know, provide support. But depending on the case, sometimes the client has higher expectations. And while the person was gone, that created more gaps. It's just hard to close, like, you know, real gaps performance.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for going deeper on that one. And it sounds like a really set of powerful lessons continuing to be learned over how do you navigate that messy nuance of just be as you said, people have things and it's going to be imperfect.
SPEAKER_01I mean, yes. I mean, we all have things. We bring it all with us to work. I mean, it's not, it's not really possible to, you know, like leave certain things aside. We you can try, but usually it will affect the way you perform.
SPEAKER_02Taking the other direction of decision stories, tell us about a time that you really explicitly from the very beginning prioritize people. I know you mentioned an engagement survey at Thermo Fisher.
SPEAKER_01That is one of my favorite topics, just because I I mean, 20 years in HR, I've done it all. Like literally. But if there's one area of expertise, it's engagement. I've had the opportunity to work and learn how to build a successful engagement plan early on, back at Atos, like I think early when I had started my career in HR. I love talking about engagement because for a very simple reason, right? As a business, you want to achieve results, right? You have you want to achieve performance. And disengaged employees bankrupt you, you know, in the worst case scenario. If you look at like Gallup surveys, uh, you know, disengaged employees cost 10 trillions to the world economy, versus engaged employees can really increase your profit by 20, 30 percent. This is a core topic for any organization wanting to build a strong culture and wanting to drive performance and productivity and have happy people. I've been in the spot where you have to roll out the survey and just taste for completion, come up with a plan and let the box done. But through the many times I had to work with engagement, I learned that there is a moment that you really need to stop and ask the real questions, right? What's really not working? What's hurting people? It's also like engagement is very cosmetic, right? Like it's it's about the vending machine, and employees usually take it as an opportunity to complain. So when they look at the employee survey, the employee survey means I can complain freely and uh anonymously, and then HR will fix it. I have this is like the worst conception of engagement that I've seen, and it's it's all across. When you see these things, and this is a cool story. I had just uh joined Thermo Fisher Scientific, and I think I was on my second third day at work, and there was this employees committee, and they were waiting for me because they wanted to present to me their demands or like their analysis with requests or ideas and suggestions. And I sit in this conference room. Hi, my name is Clara, happy to be here, and they start showing me the engagement results. The the score was like 40, 43, 45 percent. It was really low. And next to every action that they were suggesting, it said in parentheses, waiting for the new HR leader. So no owner, waiting for, and so I I look at this and I'm like, what's happening? Right, of course, I'm open and listening, and this is where you draw the line, right? This is where where you have a real opportunity to have a real conversation. So I went to the CEO with you know the presentation and to have this conversation around this is directly business impact, right? These are the stats. It's very easy to convince the CEO, not very easy, but you know, you have the data, right? To to talk about it. And this is something that you need to own. Yet it is. This is yours, and this is your team's responsibility. And I'll help you and I'll enable and I'll we'll work together on this. But first step, this has gotta be owned by the business. This has gotta be owned by the leaders. That's where you break what that's that's the first step to prioritizing people because the vending machine won't do it. Go to Amazon, there are vending machines every step of the way, and they have the serious complaints about a toxic culture.
SPEAKER_02Where did you get the experience and clarity and confidence to know that it was the business and the CEO's responsibility, even though you were days into a new job and the action items were attributed to you as the new HR leader? Uh, because that's a brave.
SPEAKER_01You know what backed me up? I had done it at Atos. We had gotten a great place to work after consistently working with engagement and the right action plan and the right leadership engagement. It was a plan that took two years, more like three years. And so I knew how to do it. I knew every step of the way to turn that around, and that 45 went to 68 the next year and to 75 the following year.
SPEAKER_02That's a phenomenal turnaround in that in that short of time.
SPEAKER_01That it's outstanding. You really can turn it around when your leaders own it and you have the right HR business partner to support.
SPEAKER_02The choice of words there is really important. The leaders must own it. It's not something that is outsourced to HR, but it requires critical HR expertise to support an HR, the supporting role for it as opposed to the ownership of culture and these things. That's really powerful.
SPEAKER_01Once the CEO is involved, leaders will follow, but not just like that. You have to create the awareness between leaders. And so there's a lot of investment of HR and HR programs to building that leadership capacity. It's all about leadership capacity, right? And that takes time. And the the action plan has to be very consistent, right? Consistency, cohesiveness, it's key. You'll carry that same plan throughout. And then you scale it up, and you also need the global alignment and you need that on your goal tree as well. Like you need that on your like actual goals by which you'll also get races or promotions. So everything has to be cohesively connected and aligned. So this is my story about prioritizing people because I could have just also said yes to breakfast on Fridays. Because people, this is what people will propose. Like usually it's kind of like they want to turn the workplace into Disney World. Like I that's how, you know, it's like, okay, yes, you can also bring your dog, okay, right? But that's not really what's gonna change the story, right?
SPEAKER_02It can be nice to have on top of a culture that's already working, and you're under I really, really like how you tie engagement to business outcomes. And I often put it's not exactly the same thing, but engagement connected to culture and the and the interplay relationship there together is what gets the business outcomes, and you have the experience and receipts to prove it.
SPEAKER_01I do, and it's fun, you know, that's where you see real impact, and then you see how attrition starts dropping, and you really see employees re-engaging and leaders, you know, also re-engaging with people. But sometimes, you know, it takes longer. I could also, I have to just not to be like just to bias the story. There were other things that took place to get that increase from 45 to 75 that were critical, and that also had to do with like really allowing internal mobility and like improving communication across the board and things that are basic, the brilliance in the basic, like brilliance, is like so. I'm talking to this amazing leader, right? Like, he communicates well, he has the right conversations with the with people every day, every time, right? And you're like, Oh, I thought leadership was more complicated, or you know, like because I think we stigmatize leaders as as people with capes, right? Like superheroes. There goes there's another human, right? Just like you, except he's brave, because I think you have to super brave to be a leader. You have to have that trait, like you have to be brave, you have to have the courage to like to really like be at the service of others. That's what it's about. It's being at the service of others, you're an enabler. That's what you are. Yet we picture leaders as you must. I read the story you wrote, Keegan, about this leader in the military who really like took the time to engage with people, like not just have the tough conversation that you have to have as a leader. You have to be so willing to have bad conversations, conflictive conversations, right? But yet treat the other person with respect. And I remember you, Rob, this leader would always like allow the person to to come to the office and like be in a safe environment and create atmosphere by connecting, by offering a coke. I think it was whatever. And like and like just have a conversation. This is what happened. My perception of what happened is this this is the effect that that thing had. What's your story, right? Like, why did this happen? How do you think this affected others? And what can you do to correct it? Simple, right? It seems like a simple conversation, yet many times you gotta dare to have and you gotta invest the time to have the right conversations.
SPEAKER_02Uh will probably surprise you not at all that bad is the same uh leader who taught me brilliance in the basics. It's a core philosophy. He's well known in those who know me and well as a gold standard for leadership that I was very blessed to have as a first commanding officer.
SPEAKER_01I heard that that phrase from you, and I cite you when I say it.
SPEAKER_02He will gladly say that he stole it from someone else too. I'm just happy to pass it on. That actually segues really neatly about the conversation, having the conversation, having the iterative understanding, and going back to the drawing board too. I'd love to hear the third story that you and you mentioned something about a warehouse expansion and rebuilding the case.
SPEAKER_01I really love this story. This is the you prompted me to tell a story that I loved, and I love this story. I learned so much from this. I also had just joined Thurma Fisher and one of those meetings with the site leader, he's telling me uh he had just got a gotten a rejection for a proposal to expand the site. It's a warehouse, it was a clinical trial business. So it's a warehouse where you store medicine that's under clinical trial. I'm meeting with the site leader, and he's sharing that he had just gotten a rejection for a plan to expand. It was like to move and to create a new warehouse because of an obvious reason. The building was very outdated. It was just very, everything was like crunched, like you know, very small, and it just didn't fit the image also of the company. The spaces were very small, no room for having lunch or like just things like that.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Imagine like just a new warehouse with all the technology that you require, like regulated temperature, and like it's you know, it's very sensitive materials that you handle in those uh spaces. So this plan was outrageously expensive, and and the ROI or amortization for is that how you say it? Amortization? Am I saying it the right way?
SPEAKER_02You were saying it at least better as good or better than I can pronounce the word.
SPEAKER_01So the plan was rejected because amortization was seven to ten years, right? It was a big cost for the company, and this is a highly financially driven organization.
SPEAKER_02Certainly, yeah.
SPEAKER_01We sat there like talking through this and how good it would be to do this, and plus we were so packed, we were discarding thousands of boxes on the street, right? Like everything just was just so crowded and you couldn't walk through the so this was needed. So we decided to reframe the case study, right? Like to rebuild the narrative around the need for a new warehouse. Because at the end of the day, really, this was not just a financial plan. It was more than that, right? It was about the people in the building, it was about the performance, it was about the future of the site, and we rebuild the narrative around that low engagement scores, we had the attrition, we had health and safety issues due to the outdated infrastructure. We even added sustainability, like again, like all of us, we didn't have a recycling, you know, uh model not to throw boxes on the street, right? Although they would get picked up at some point, but by the city. So we just built it around the people. We made it about allowing people an opportunity to grow because changing the building would also mean new opportunities, new opportunities for everybody. And we presented the case again and again. Two rejections, then we got three rejections until we finally got it approved. Because we decided to insist and we decided to build a real case around the need for not just the expansion of the site, but the expansion of opportunities for people, right? And the return was gonna be there because this plan was solid, right? And I love this story just because it taught me financial data is it's just never only about the financial data, right? And the financial case study. It's about the meaning, right? Like the real meaning and the impact in true human beings. And I learned that. And also I learned about perseverance with when you really believe in something, when you know it's the right thing. We got three rejections. No, but we never we didn't drop, we would design this cute text, like visualization, is visualizing and how we would give opportunities for people to be promoted and ask new people. And we made it a reality. I got to work through the floor planning, and we even built a committee with the employees, like with requests and like how they would like you know different things to be and happen. And they participated actively, like in going to you know, the new site and see advancements and give feedback. And that new site got inaugurated. I even got to plan the inauguration party, and everyone came from all around the world. And I don't know, just uh so fulfilling to see how things can happen when you believe in it and when you know that the narrative and the meaning is what really matters.
SPEAKER_02I love that story. I love it as a capper to the whole conversation because you, I mean, as you identified, the persistence in the face of uh rejection. It's not about by being brave enough to bet on people, everyone is going to, oh yeah, of course we should have been doing that all the time. It's helping to continue to build on top of the data around finances. Here's the additional considerations that that are important and very real. These are business outcomes that will impact these financial statements that were not considered in a pure financial statement. It also ties very neatly back into all the way to the beginning of our conversation about it is a leadership, especially, but in this effective leadership for these outcomes, is daily choice and daily activity and sometimes a daily grind against headwinds and pushing through that from a center of believing though truly what you know is the right path is the work, is the value, and any finding the success, finding your favorite stories on the back end.
SPEAKER_01You just died all of those things mostly. It's a fun work. I mean, being a leader, it's a huge commitment. But I think again, the brilliance of the basics, right? To the basics, go back to the basics and like really mean it and put the meaning into it. I think throughout this conversation, we we talked about, you know, real, like real cases and like impact and individual peoples and like larger group of people. I will say that some of the the most fulfilling stories that I carry with me are the ones where I was just able to impact that one person, the right conversation with somebody that really listened and and really was able to troubleshoot something. Super simple, but those are the ones that shaped me, right? Like my gratification comes from those very small individual acts I was able to put in place and people benefit from. You know, the employee with morbid obesity who needed to work from home when working from home was not an option, and the chair you sent that person so that the person was going to be comfortable at home. And, you know, the employee that was so frustrated and had been so frustrated. I wrote an article about this. Uh, I helped an employee quit. That's the name of the art. Because you look at HR, you're like, it's everything is about retention. No, you know, that it's also very costly for the organization and for the person. And sometimes, you know, you have to tell the employees they own it, they own the decisions they make every day. They own the horrible relationship they have with their leaders, right? They own it. It is about, you know, them having the right of like owning it or making the decisions that they need to make. I love the way I get to say I love it.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna leave it there with that beautiful statement. Are you ready for their uh the lightning-ish round?
SPEAKER_01Yes, let's do it.
SPEAKER_02All right, Clara, what was your first job?
SPEAKER_01The first, first, first ever. I was 15 and this political party, like it was a political campaign. So they would do this like events, like Child's Children's Day. This is in Argentina, so children's day is a big thing. And I dressed as a bunny for the party. I got this is my first job, and I entertained um kids in this party.
SPEAKER_02As a parent of nine-year-old twins, I deeply appreciate the work that you did.
SPEAKER_01I could have chosen a different costume because the ears were too long and they kept on pulling from the ears, so the the hands move and I couldn't see at some point of life. I can't see. So, you know, if if I get to do it again, I'll be a bear or something.
SPEAKER_02The grabbability is a good a good lesson learned. We talked a little bit about a couple of things, uh, but what's one leadership skill that you wish that you learned earlier?
SPEAKER_01To be vulnerable. I mean, with the level of consciousness that I've developed or the maturity that I gained now, I think early on I would I would be more just too serious. And being vulnerable is it's a huge win for me and for others. You get to really connect, you know, with people.
SPEAKER_02On the other hand, what's the biggest myth about leadership that you've heard?
SPEAKER_01I get upset because uh this we get to picture leaders as as superheroes, and I just hate that. Like you have to be perfect, you have to be this and that and this and that, and it's this whole, you know, list competences, and you also get to make decisions and you also get to, you know, like take on the pressure, and all of that is real, but I think we need to humanize leaders, we need to be more fair with what we ask from leaders. So yeah, I mean, yeah, that superhero ideal figure, I think is not possible. The best leaders, the stories, the best leaders I heard. A lot come from the Marine. Simon Seinek is, you know, someone that we all and I remember this story, but this was from a training I did a long time ago. That like he was just always, you know, before or when going into a battle, if there was anyone that was deceased during the battle, leader will always go to recover the people, the bodies, and he would always make this meetings with everyone and be there for others. It's as simple as that, right? I think we have this idealistic expectations of leaders.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thank you. Adjacent to that, uh, what's the worst professional advice you've ever received? And you don't have to say who gave it to you.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I don't know if this is the worst.
SPEAKER_02Just bad advice in general is good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so just the the audience knows we did not prepare this question. So I had this leader uh who in this highly pressing moments would always sing or tell me, just keep swimming and I will hate it.
SPEAKER_02That's a wonderful reference to a lovely movie.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. No, she would actually sing it just like in the movie. It was terrible.
SPEAKER_02Speaking of movies and especially things that are not leadership or business related, what are you watching, listening to, or reading? Uh, what's a good recommendation that you can give the audience?
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm part of a book club. So two things.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01Reading all sorts of yoga books that you can think of.
SPEAKER_02Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_01Especially the sutras of Patanjali, because I am starting to become a yoga teacher.
SPEAKER_02Oh, cool.
SPEAKER_01And soon to graduate May 2nd. I'm also part of a book club, and it's within the yoga setting. So the book we're on is The Way of the Shaman. Very spiritual.
SPEAKER_02Cool. That's important. I love it. I'm an adequate minimalist yoga practitioner myself. It's a favorite exercise of mine, but I I would not say that I have to continue to advance in a practice.
SPEAKER_01Well, practice makes the master. Uh, it is indeed true.
SPEAKER_02I will check out the way of the shaman uh as well. Awesome. Clara DeMarco is a global HR and talent executive who has spent over 20 years building people and strategies and organizations across the US and Latin America. Uh, we'll have all of this linked in our show notes. Uh, but Clara, where can people find you? What else do you want our listeners to check out? Where should they go look for you and People Path?
SPEAKER_01They can find me on LinkedIn. I could well, I also have a side hustle. I love our. I might send my personal website and you can showcase it. You can find uh PeoplePath on LinkedIn, on our website, reach out to me directly. I'd love, yes, any opportunity to build people to build companies. That would be the final statement.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, Claire, so much for joining us and just diving in about the conversation with that sense of vulnerability that you have learned very well.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. It was fantastic to have this opportunity. I thank you for the opportunity, and it was like really nice to to chat with you again.
SPEAKER_02Love it. Thank you. And to all the listeners, follow, like, and subscribe to Bet on People on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. Uh, and if you want to learn more about how we think about uh leadership at Uta, visit Uda.io slash executive coaching. I'm Keegan Evans and we bet on people.